IBhunga lezeNzululwazi laMazwe ngaMazwe kunye neLungu lalo, uMbutho waseTshayina weNzululwazi kunye neTekhnoloji (NGOKUGQIBELA), ngokubambisana ne indalo, baye basungula uchungechunge olutsha lwe-podcast enamacandelo amathandathu oluphonononga ukuvela komhlaba wemisebenzi yophando. Kulo lonke uchungechunge, abaphandi bokuqala kunye nabaphakathi baya kuba nencoko kunye nososayensi abakhulu, babelane ngamava okukhula, ukusebenzisana, kunye nokomelela ebusweni bokutshintsha ngokukhawuleza.
Kuthatha ntoni ukuguqula isayensi ibe yintshukumo kwinqanaba lehlabathi? Kwesi siqendu sesibini, intatheli yenzululwazi u-Izzie Clarke uthetha ngamazwi amabini aphambili kwidiplomacy yesayensi: UNjingalwazi Zakri Hamid, owayenguMcebisi wezeNzululwazi kwiNkulumbuso yaseMalaysia, kunye UMaría Estelí Jarquín, Ilungu leBhodi eLawulayo ye-ISC kunye nomphathi wobudlelwane bamazwe ngamazwe kwiZiko lase-UK le-Ecology kunye ne-Hydrology.
Ngokudibeneyo, babonakalisa iindlela zabo zekhondo lomsebenzi kwaye babelane ngolwazi malunga nendlela abaphandi abanokwakha ngayo imisebenzi enentsingiselo kumgaqo-nkqubo wesayensi, idiplomacy, kunye neendima zokucebisa. Ukusuka ekucebiseni iinkulumbuso ukuya kuthethathethwano lwezizwe ngezizwe, banikezela ngeengcinga ezicacileyo kunye neengcebiso ezisebenzayo malunga nezakhono, indlela yokucinga kunye namathuba abaluleke kakhulu.
Izzie Clarke: 00:01
Molweni kwaye wamkelekile kolu chungechunge lwe-podcast malunga nokutshintsha kwemeko yesayensi kubaphandi bokuqala naphakathi, enikezelwa ngokubambisana neBhunga lezeNzululwazi laMazwe ngaMazwe, ngenkxaso yeChina Association for Science and Technology.
Ndiyintatheli yesayensi u-Izzie Clarke, kwaye esi siqendu sigxininisa ukubaluleka kwemisebenzi ngaphakathi komgaqo-nkqubo wesayensi, idiplomacy kunye neengcebiso, kunye nezakhono eziphambili ezifunwa ngabaphandi bokuqala ukuya kwi-mid-career abanomdla ekusebenzeni kwezi nkalo.
Namhlanje, ndidityaniswe nguNjingalwazi Zakri Hamid, uMlawuli we-International Institute of Science Diplomacy kunye noZinzo kwiYunivesithi yase-UCSI eKuala Lumpur, owayenguMcebisi wezeNzululwazi kwiNkulumbuso yaseMalaysia kwaye Fellow yeBhunga lezeNzululwazi laMazwe ngaMazwe.
Zakri Hamid 00:49:
Hi Izzie.
Izzie Clarke 00:51:
Kwaye uMaría Estelí Jarquín, okwangoku uyinxalenye yebhodi elawulayo yeBhunga leSayensi yeZizwe ngezizwe, kunye nomphathi wobudlelwane bamazwe ngamazwe kwi-UK Centre ye-Ecology kunye ne-Hydrology e-Oxfordshire.
U-María Estelí Jarquín 01:03:
Molo, Izzie. Molo, uNjingalwazi Zakri. Enkosi ngesi simemo.
Izzie Clarke 01:07:
Ndibulela kakhulu nobabini. Ngoku, ndonwabe kakhulu ngokuthetha nawe. Ndiyathetha, iindima ezibaluleke kakhulu eninazo nobabini. Ngoko, María, singaqala ngawe? Kutheni umgaqo-nkqubo wesayensi, idiplomacy kunye neendima zokucebisa zibaluleke kangaka kwihlabathi lanamhlanje?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 01:23:
Lo ngumbuzo onika umdla kakhulu, Izzie. Ke, siphila kwixesha kwimbali apho sifuna abakhi beebhulorho ngakumbi kunangaphambili. Ke, abantu, iimbono, ezinokuthi ziqhagamshelane kuzo zonke iiyantlukwano, zikhuthaze iingxoxo, zilungelelanise amaqela aphikisanayo kunye namaqela ukuba adibane kwaye afumane izisombululo zexesha elide. Kwaye kulo lonke ixesha lomsebenzi wam, ndiye ndamangaliswa ngokwenene yinto enokwenziwa yisayensi-ukunciphisa uxinezeleko, ukunceda ukujongana neemeko ezinzima.
Kwaye le yindima ngqo yomgaqo-nkqubo wesayensi, idiplomacy yesayensi kunye neendima zokucebisa. Babaluleke ngokwenene kuba babona ukuba oku kuhlangana kolwazi kunye nesenzo kunye nenzululwazi inako ukukwazi ukunqumla imida, ukumanya amazwe ukuze asebenze kunye mhlawumbi kwezinye iimeko ebengenakukwazi. Abacebisi ngezenzululwazi, oonozakuzaku benzululwazi, abasombululi nje iingxaki zanamhlanje. Babeka iziseko zezo bhulorho apho izizukulwana ezizayo kwikhulu, kwiminyaka engamakhulu amabini ukusuka ngoku ziya kuhamba phambili.
Izzie Clarke 02:26:
Zakri, ucebise kwamanye amanqanaba aphezulu eMalaysia. Ke, ukuba ngumcebisi wesayensi kubandakanya ntoni kwaye ingaba yintoni impembelelo?
Zakri Hamid 02:36:
Makhe ndikubalisele umyalelo omnye ovela kwiNkulumbuso. Ukuqala kwam ukudibana naye wathi, “Ndiyazi ukuba usisazinzulu yaye ndingumpolitiki.
Wathi, omnye, "Ngaba ingcebiso yesayensi inokuguqulela kumvuzo ongcono kubantu bethu?" Intsingiselo, ngaba singasebenzisa isayensi ukuphelisa intlupheko? Kwaye owesibini, wathi, "Ngaba eli cebiso lesayensi lingaguqulela kwimisebenzi?" Le yimiyalelo elula kakhulu kodwa inzima kakhulu. Ke, oku kukubaluleka, ukufaneleka, kwenzululwazi namhlanje. Kwaye indlela endiyenza ngayo, ewe, bekukho amanqanaba amaninzi ekusebenzeni nabaphathiswa ababandakanyekayo kwisayensi okanye ukusebenzisana noogxa bethu phesheya kolwandle.
Izzie Clarke 03:45:
Ngokuqinisekileyo, kwaye ndiyacinga ukuba…ubuhle besayensi kukuba inamandla kakhulu ekusombululeni ingxaki. Kodwa sikwafuna abo bantu baphila loo mava ukuba banike oko kuphando lwabo, ngokunjalo.
UMaría, ulakhe ikhondo lakho lokudibanisa isayensi kunye nomgaqo-nkqubo. Ke, yintoni eyakutsalela kule ndlela kwaye yeyiphi imingeni oye wajongana nayo kwangethuba?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 04:10:
Emva kweminyaka yam yeyunivesiti, ndaqeshwa ukuba ndijoyine amaqela ahlukeneyo abacebisi ukucebisa urhulumente waseLatin America kwizihloko ezahlukeneyo. Ndandisoloko ndizibuza ukuba kutheni loo maqela abacebisi ekhona ngokuchasene nokubonisana nophando olukhulu olwalusenzeka. Ngoko ke, ndaqalisa ukujonga iinkqubo zeMasters apho ndandinokufunda ngakumbi malunga noku kuhlangana phakathi kwenzululwazi nomgaqo-nkqubo, kwaye yayisisiqalo sayo yonke into kulo msebenzi kum.
Imingeni. Ewe, ndisuka eLatin America, ndisuka kwilizwe elinengeniso ephakathi. Ndabona kwakusasa ukuba andizukuba nelizwi etafileni. Umceli mngeni wokuqala, mhlawumbi iziseko zabacebisi bethu bezenzululwazi azikho sesikweni njengamanye amazwe, ngoko ke kwenziwa njani na oko kuqatshelwa kwenkcubeko ngokubaluleka kwezo zakhiwo. Kodwa kwanendlela yokuba nelizwi kwihlabathi apho mhlawumbi ummandla wam wawumelwe ngaphantsi kweengxoxo ezinkulu ezijikeleze idiplomacy yesayensi.
Izzie Clarke 05:10:
Uyijonge njani loo nto kwaye uye wayijonga njani eminye imiqobo ebonakalayo, nokuba sisini, uqeqesho okanye ijografi, enokunceda abanye abakwindawo efanayo?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 05:23:
Ndicinga ukuba ndiye ndachatshazelwa yiyo yonke loo miqobo uyikhankanyileyo - isini, uqeqesho, ijografi kwaye, okubaluleke kakhulu, ubudala. Ke, ingcebiso yam apho malunga nendlela yokuhamba iya kuba, okokuqala, uzilungiselele, ufunde. Fika ngokwenene kwintlanganiso okanye kwinkomfa okanye kwintlanganiso yamazwe ngamazwe elungiselelwe kakuhle ngesihloko, uzilungiselele kakuhle malunga nokuba ngubani na oya kuzimasa.
Okwesibini, yiba nabacebisi ukuba bakuncede ujonge ezo meko. Abacebisi ekusenokwenzeka ukuba baphambi kwakho kumsebenzi wakho abanokwabelana ngezifundo zabo ngobomi.
Okwesithathu nokokugqibela - zithobe. Ukuqala kwam ukusebenza ngentsebenziswano okanye ukwakha iibhulorho phakathi kwamaziko enzululwazi kunye nabaphathiswa bemicimbi yangaphandle eLatin America - amazwe amabini ahluke kakhulu - ndikhumbula ndafika kwiofisi yangaphandle eCosta Rica ndaza ndathi kubo, "Molo, ndiza apha kuni ukuze nindifundise yonke into enicinga ukuba kufuneka ndiyifunde kuni." Ndaqalisa ukubathemba. Kwaye uyenza njani loo nto? Ngokuzithoba, ngokuvuleleka ekufundeni izinto ezintsha kunye noogxa bakho kunye namaqabane akho kuthethathethwano lwamazwe ngamazwe okanye ingxoxo yamazwe amabini, ngokunjalo.
Izzie Clarke 06:41:
Ndicinga ukuba linqaku elinika umdla kuba ndicinga ukuba ngamanye amaxesha abantu banokungena kwiimeko kwaye baphantse bazive besoyika, besoyika ukuvuma ukuba abayazi into abafuna ukufunda ngayo. Ndicinga ukuba linqanaba lokuba sesichengeni ukuba ndithi ndifundise, ndincede.
Zakri, singajonga umsebenzi wakho okomzuzwana? Ibe ngawaphi amanye ala maxesha abalulekileyo okanye ukhetho oluye lwanceda ukubumba umsebenzi wakho wezifundo ezahlukeneyo, ogxile kumgaqo-nkqubo?
Zakri Hamid 07:10:
Omnye umbuzo onomdla. Ukufumana kwam iPhD, injongo yam yayikukubuyela ndifundise eyunivesithi. Olu tshintsho lwaba kuxa ndandimenywa ukuba ndibe ngumcebisi wezenzululwazi okanye kwezobuchwephesha kwigqiza likarhulumente waseMalaysia elalithethathethana ngeUN Convention on Biological Diversity, yaye oku kwakungonyaka ka-1990. Ekupheleni kosuku lokuqala lothethathethwano, ndaqweba isibindi ngokwaneleyo ndaza ndathetha nentloko yegqiza eyayingunozakuzaku.
Ngoko, ndamxelela, Nkosikazi Unozakuzaku, ndicinga ukuba ndifuna ukugoduka. Wathi yena, ngoba? Ndathi, andiqhelananga okanye andikhululekanga ngokuqhutywa kwentlanganiso. Eli gqiza lisuka kumazwe angamalungu eZizwe Ezimanyeneyo, elisuka kumazwe angama-200, laliza kuhlanganisana kwisiqingatha seyure emva koko lanqumamisa. Babedla ngokuphumla kwigumbi lokuphumla leendwendwe iiyure ezimbini ezinesiqingatha, besela ikofu okanye nantoni na.
Ke, ndamxelela, andiqondi ukuba ndingangena. Emva koko uMmeli wandixelela, uNjingalwazi, kutheni ungaziniki iintsuku ezimbalwa ngakumbi? Wayehlekisa kodwa ekwacaphukile. Oko kwenzeka phantse kwiminyaka engama-40 eyadlulayo. Khange ndijonge ngasemva. Uyazi ukuba kutheni? Kaloku kwakukwigumbi lokuphumla labathunywa apho kwakuvunyelwene khona.
Izzie Clarke 08:44:
Kwaye ndiyacinga ukuba oko kusikhokelela kumanqaku okuthetha ngezakhono. Ukuba namandla othethathethwano kunye nokujongana nezo ncoko, unokuthi zeziphi izakhono ezixabisekileyo zokusebenza kumgaqo-nkqubo wesayensi kwaye abaphandi banokuqala njani ukuziphuhlisa?
Zakri Hamid 09:05:
Okokuqala, kufuneka ube ngumphulaphuli olungileyo. Okwesibini, kufuneka usixabise isikhundla somchasi wakho. Okwesithathu, umele ube nomonde ngengqiqo yokuba abanye abantu bathetha ngaphezu kokuba befanele bathethe. Okwesine, kufuneka ube nolwazi.
Ke, njengososayensi, ngokuqinisekileyo unalo ulwazi. Kodwa kufuneka ulumkele kakhulu ukuba iingcebiso zesayensi esizinikayo kufuneka zihambelane nomba. Okokugqibela, ndiyacinga, nawuphi na umgaqo-nkqubo esiwunikayo akufuneki ube ngummiselo womgaqo-nkqubo. Ifanele ihambelane nomgaqo-nkqubo.
U-María Estelí Jarquín 09:51:
Kwaye ndibhalisela ngokupheleleyo kuyo yonke into ethethwe nguZakri. Kwaye ndingadibanisa izakhono ezimbini nje ezithambileyo. Eyokuqala - ubuchule bokubalisa ibali. Kwaye oku kuya kunceda izazinzulu kunye nabaphandi bexesha lokuqala ukuba babelane ngesayensi yabo ngcono. Izakhono zesibini ezibalulekileyo - uthungelwano. Kwaye oku kufunda indlela yokuchonga iziganeko ezifanelekileyo, abantu abafanelekileyo ukuthetha nabo ukunceda ukukhulisa umsebenzi wakho kwaye emva koko wakhe umhlaba oqhelekileyo, ukwakha ukuthembana nabo bantu ukuze, A, bafunde kubo okanye, ababini, bacebise.
Izzie Clarke 10:25:
Ke, kuni nobabini, nilibona phi elona thuba likhulu labaphandi beminyaka yokuqala ukuya kwephakathi ukuba babe negalelo elibonakalayo kwiincoko zehlabathi okanye zomgaqo-nkqubo wesizwe?
Zakri Hamid 10:39:
Isiqalo sokuqala kukukwenza kwinqanaba lengingqi yakho okanye lesizwe ukuze ubandakanyeke nabaphathiswa. Ukhankanyile ngenkonzo yezangaphandle – yeyona nto injalo. Kodwa kwisayensi kukho ezinye ezininzi. UMphathiswa wezeNzululwazi, itekhnoloji kunye nokusungula, uMphathiswa wezoRhwebo. Kufuneka uthembisene ngomtshato.
Ukwenza oko kunokwenzeka ukuba unikezele ngeenkonzo zakho kwezo komiti zisekiweyo. Enye yeyokuzisa nabahlobo bakho benzululwazi. Siya kuqaphela ngamanye amaxesha, kungekhona lonke ixesha, izazinzulu zikhululekile kakhulu kwinqaba yazo yendlovu. Ukuba ungumfundi, upapasha amaphepha, ufuna ukunyuselwa ube ngunjingalwazi okanye nantoni na. Ezo zilungile.
Kodwa kukho enye into ekufuneka ibandakanye nezemfundo. Kwaye oko kukuvavanya ukuba iziphumo zophando lwakho zifanelekile na kwisizwe, zifanelekile kummandla. Ke, ukuba oko kuhambelana akukho, ndiya kukuxelela ukuba unendawo enkulu yokukhula.
Izzie Clarke 11:50:
Okanye uMaría?
U-María Estelí Jarquín 11:51:
Ndingathanda ukujongana nomyalezo kubo bonke abo baphandi beminyaka yokuqala ukuya kwaphakathi abasuka kumazwe anengeniso esezantsi naphakathi abanokuthi basiphulaphule. Yiba nesibindi sokuza kulo mgaqo-nkqubo wesizwe okanye iincoko zehlabathi kuba ndiqinisekile ukuba uza kuyahlula iingxoxo, kuba uza kuzisa iimbono ezintsha. Mhlawumbi uza kuzisa iindlela ezintsha.
Hayi indlela ekubaluleke ngayo ukuba etafileni umntu onokuthi achaze indlela izinto ezisebenza ngayo kuMzantsi-mpuma Asia, eAfrika okanye kuMbindi Merika. Ukuthetha malunga nentsebenziswano elinganayo xa usebenza kwisayensi, ngakumbi ukuzisa ilizwi kubo bonke abo bebengamelwanga kwisayensi, kodwa nakwiingxoxo zomgaqo-nkqubo kwinqanaba lamazwe amaninzi.
Izzie Clarke 12:38:
Ndiyanibulela nobabini ngokundidibanisa nam namhlanje.
Ukuba ungumphandi wangethuba okanye ophakathi kwaye ufuna ukuba yinxalenye yoluntu lwehlabathi, joyina iForam yeBhunga lezeNzululwazi yeZizwe ngeZizwe yoosonzululwazi abasakhasayo.
Tyelela iwebhsayithi ibhunga.inzululwazi/iforum. Ndingu-Izzie Clarke, kwaye kwixesha elizayo siza kuphonononga ifuthe le-AI kunye nedijithali kwimisebenzi yesayensi. Kude kubengoko.
Funda okungakumbi malunga nePodcast yeSayensi yeDiplomat: Sir Peter Gluckman malunga neengcebiso zeSayensi, ukuthembana, kunye nemida yobungqina 
Funda ngakumbi ngeSayensi ngaphandle kwemida: Intsebenziswano yamazwe ngamazwe kwisizukulwana esilandelayo sabaphandi 
Funda ngakumbi malunga nokuCinga ngokutsha ukukhula kunye nokomelela kwi-ecosystem yophando 